Reply by: Ryan Posted: 3/26/2020 11:22:12 AM Points: 2376
How do you know they aren't from the same household?
We will be better off if enforcing the stay at home is enforced (if at all) by the proper authorities. What you are complaining about seems to be a pretty small issue. Not sure if you have been to a grocery store lately, but there is a significantly higher risk of infection there than 4 guys out fishing.
Reply by: icemaster Posted: 3/26/2020 11:49:15 AM Points: 227
Doesn't seem like Larimer county or the Governor thinks it's a pretty small issue, and it is currently against the law. It is possible the two in the truck were from the same household but the other two brought separate vehicles so that's pretty unlikely, and also notice that the two guys and one guy from the pickup were all together at one point, so it's REALLY unlikely the four guys were from the same household and brought 3 separate vehicles.
IT IS NOT a Law! IT is not house arrest, It is a request from state officials to slow the spread of the virus.
I had contact with the wyo dow on Wednesday while fishing. They were not even checking licenses. I offered and they said no. There was 2 of them and they were in separate trucks but approached me together standing right next to each other. Obviously not from the same household. They kept their distance and we talked fishing. It is not illegal to not social distance. its just stupid and you cant fix stupid. IMO
I work for King Sooper's here in Fort Collins, and with regards to social distancing...we have a lot bigger issues than 2 guys at a pond together.
It is truly confounding and upsetting to have people wearing masks and gloves come right up next to you and ask for something, or reach around / over you for product and generally ignoring all the distancing guidelines we have been told.
Even with a limit of customers in the store in the morning, people are still brushing past each other or clamoring over goods.
It's literally a flock of panicked sheeple every day running through the stores.
Be smart, be courteous and remember this affects us ALL.
It's a bitter pill for many to swallow, but people must learn to have some empathy and realize their actions will directly impact others.
Everyone individually must make the conscious effort to keep themselves AND others distant and protected. It unfortunately seems there are far too many selfish, ignorant and unconcerned people in the US for this to really work as intended.
I guess I'm ignorant, I see nothing wrong with getting out on your boat or fishing from shore so long as you are keeping your physical distance from one another. The order says it's OK to be outside for exercise and such so long as you keep your distance. Pretty sure if the state thought it was inappropriate they would pull ANS inspectiors and close state parks completely.
My brother is an I.C.U nurse in Southern California and we've been talking a little more than usual. I wanted his blessing to fish and he said "Yeah, with distancing." But also that there's more to this than not getting or spreading the infection like protecting resources like EMS and hospital space and equipment. So every time we leave the house there will be a risk of an event that could use up things that are needed for dealing with the outbreak. He was particularly bothered by seeing sport boats on the road and imagine those jet skiers mentioned on the board would cause the same feeling. I probably will fish but might make sure I'm not driving many extra miles so it'll be some dirty pond between home and work.
My daughter, (an RN), just informed me she has just been tested for the Corona virus due to her being in close proximity to a coworker who tested positive. So please, donít minimize the potential effect of close contact exposure. (Hope her test is negative!)
Reply by: Pathway Posted: 3/27/2020 8:41:19 AM Points: 534
The Wuhan virus is not a death sentence for 98% or more of folks how get it. Many don't even know they are infected. If you are over 60 and have other health problems then you are probably in trouble. Hydroxychoroquine has been extremely effective in China, Korea and France in killing the virus.
Reply by: shiverfix Posted: 3/27/2020 8:56:47 AM Points: 3772
More than anything I get pissed when I see people out and about with masks on. Like the two guys going fishing at Bingham a couple weekends ago. You are physically separated from other people. Why are you wearing masks? Either you have tested positive, in which case you shouldn't' be out, or you have hoarded them and have enough to wear when you don't need to.
My daughter, who is patient facing at a hospital pharmacy, isn't allowed to wear a mask because of rationing in the health care system. This is because of you.
Reply by: NoNick Posted: 3/27/2020 11:07:53 AM Points: 58
Dr. Oz had a show on a few days ago about Hydroxychloroquine and Z-PAK. He talked to a French doc who did a small study with some amazing results. I'm sure he has clips on his website.
As for masks, I have masks from years ago that I use for dusty yard work. If I feel the need to wear one in public, I don't feel a bit guilty about it. Maybe the hospitals should have been stockpiling them over the years? They sure charge enough for other stuff.
As long as you can go fish, I say do it, but responsibly. Colorado was world renown for its clean, healthy air back in the TB times, so why not take advantage of it. It's good for you.
Medcram has a number of informative youtube videos that go through the literature. This one quotes both the South Korean and Chinese studies. France just completed on and there is one ongoing in New Your.
Get over it ! I'm sick of all this. Fish, hike, or whatever outside alone. My daughter is a PA in a family practice and see's a lot of people a day that wouldn't be there if they didn't have a problem. I just texted her and we'll get over this strong flu.
Shiver and Skiman, Careful about your assumptions about masks & those who wear them.
If you see me wearing one, it is probably the same one I wore at work all day that day, or perhaps if it looks more heavy duty (Hepa) then the one I have at home that I've had for years.
Don't know why I'd wear it fishing at this point, but if I did, that would be my business. If you asked me politely I'd tell you, but there'd be no sense getting angry before you did. Nobody else would want my used face mask anyway.
it really shouldn't be treated any different than the flu. 36,000 people in the U.S. died last year from the flue alone. some of the people that wear masks are paranoid about getting the virus. This virus is new so people freak about it because of the media and people freak out about things they don't know about. the flue is just as bad if not worse for people with compromised immune systems or asthma. the flue is a raspatory virus. This whole situation has gotten completely out of whack all because it is a new virus that just happened to come on to the scene. No one was quarantined to this magnitude for SARS or the H1N1 virus.
Tbubb, I was referring to those selfish people who HOARD things like masks, TP, hand sanitizer and such, when those on the front lines, (like my daughter), who donít have enough supplies to keep them safe while treating those infected with this virus. You wearing a mask was not part of my equation. devon, There are no vaccines for the Corona Virus, so you canít treat it like the flu. It spreads quite rapidly, and is particularly deadly to those with compromised immune systems. Apples and oranges!
the flue does affect people with compromised immune systems. My mom got sick with the flue than died because of lung issues. the flue is a raspatory disease and is just as infectious. more deadly viruses have been spread throughout the world and there has not been anywhere near the precautions taken. im not saying it hasn't been deadly but the flue is deadly to people every year and no one freaks out about it like this virus and its just because it is new. people get a flue shot and will still get the flue because there so many strains. The vast majority of people who get this new virus are not even that sick. I am going to physical therapy every week because of a sever hand injury that left me with two less fingers. I was riding in a side by side in my opinion those are more dangerous than any virus because even when you know what you are doing things can still go wrong. My physical therapist has been a health care provider for over a decade and in her opinion the flue is worse. people evolved to live with germs. It is sad when people die because there body cant handle a simple sickness from the flue or a cold. when this all ends the covid-19 virus will probably be looked at as another flue strain because viruses evolve too not just people.
Reply by: El Jefe Posted: 3/27/2020 9:15:46 PM Points: 389
So, if someone wants to wear a mask that they purchased to protect themselves from COVID-19, they're "selfish"??? You don't know anything about them but automatically assume they're "hoarders"?? They might have a relative that's elderly (like my 90 year old father) or a family member that's immunocompromised and they don't want to get infected and bring home the illness to their loved ones. My daughter, wife and I spent a dozen hours the last three days making masks to donate to first responders and ER personnel. For what you pay for one new lure, you could buy a mask on eBay for your daughter. Now who's selfish?
i appreciate your condolences. i don't want you to feel like you have to quit the discussion. the covid-19 virus has just been just as bad for a lot of people, i just feel like it has been blown out proportion in my opinion, just like many other headlining topics.
A few hitches with this virus are the fact that it's more contagious than the flu, as mentioned earlier by Hawaiian Punch, and the fact that not a single person is vaccinated for it. You stir this together, and the reality is you have more people getting it that will have a really tough time with it. The really sad part is many people are also dying from it too. The constant leaderboard of death and infections doesn't help anybody either.
If the flu shot protects 20 million people from getting it, those people won't get sick and probably won't spread it like they can the Wuhan virus. That was sort of the deal with the '09 Swine flu- for younger people. People over 50? had some chance of immunity to it thanks to a shot in the '70s, but the young had no vaccine to fall back on. That's why young folks were hit hard back then, and why all folks are getting hit with the China's worst import now.
I see the CPW said it's ok to fish and hunt, so do it, but responsibly. It'll help all those who enjoy those activities get through this whacko situation with their sanity.
Condolences to losing your Mom to the flu. That's terrible.
Reply by: Hawaiian Punch Posted: 3/29/2020 12:50:54 AM Points: 8568
The "one person infects three other persons" is not where this stops . . . .the three infected people will each infect at least three other persons . . .and so on . . .and so on! Talk about spreading fast!
Reply by: Tbubb Posted: 3/29/2020 4:26:21 AM Points: 22051
Skiman, Thanks for the reply. What I am still trying to figure out, is how anyone might know who is hoarding from who happens to have a mask (and perhaps for a reason) for some other reason, just by looking, or seeing a picture? I'm not saying hoarders shouldn't be shunned or worse. I'm saying that one should not assume anything based on appearances. If we question our assumptions, politely, we'll be a better society. We'll also have a better chance of changing the way people think when they are in the wrong. An aggressive attitude, more often than not, encourages people to defend their positions and behaviors more than it encourages people to re-examine or change them. Regardless, Thanks for responding politely.
Also: If people want to do something marginally helpful, yet responsible, they can just wear a buff over their face. This will help to decrease the odds of transmission via droplets.
Reply by: SirGreg88 Posted: 3/29/2020 7:32:57 AM Points: 74
RATIONAL/RATIONING (S+S). It is perfectly rational for people to stock-up during a time like this. They are protecting themselves and others by limiting their visits to the marketplace for whatever they choose to buy with the fruits of their labor. In a free market-driven society there may be temporary shortages or price increases when we have big events/crisis. Markets adjust. Rationing is common practice in countries who have people fleeing to get here. Hey, people who never purchased gloves,masks, disinfectant, Lysol, bottled water, canned/dry goods, Spam or Pudding Pops suddenly decide to make that choice. Hang in there baby. Envy is a bad look in the good old USA. Knowhatimsayin braaa?
Ok, so I didn't wanna spend the whole afternoon reading each reply, but that IS the law, you need to keep the 6 feet of social distancing if you can. That means meet your friend fishing but then keep your distance. The governor has been pretty clear on this. And while there are different views even from the medical field.... the vast majority of medical professionals or professors of diseases that I've spoken to are NOT optimistic or hopeful that this is something that's we're just gonna "get over"....
@ Pathway, I respectfully disagree with your assessment. This virus is infectious and potentially deadly to ALL ages, regardless of their current health.and The worrisome part is the fact you can carry it and not even know it. Infecting the ďherdĒ to achieve immunity isnít the answer, I said earlier that I would back off from further posts on this topic, but I fcannot ignore this kind of misinformation.
Pathway, We've got about 150 people hospitalized under the age of 60 at this very moment, and at least one death for under 60's that I know of. There will be a time for letting the young one's mingle and build up heard immunity, but that time is not presently. Polis, like him or not, did a very good job of explaining this in his address last Friday. You can find it on Youtube, here: [log in for link]
As for the stats on Covid in CO, you can find them here, and they are updated daily: [log in for link]
Reply by: El Jefe Posted: 3/30/2020 7:07:32 AM Points: 389
Thank you for posting the link to the Colorado.gov website on COVID-19. That is an extremely informative page and gives me greater hope that our State government is on top of things. Note that the new case count has been dropping the last few days. Hopefully all of the measures put in place are beginning to see results.
Reply by: Tbubb Posted: 3/30/2020 8:29:35 AM Points: 22051
El jefe, The "case by onset date" has a lag in it as the reporting is not instantaneous, nor is the test. As a result, that graph always has a downward slope at the end (the date you look at it) and has always come up over time. So that 'March 28' date that only has a few cases? That will be a lot higher in a few days. We shall see how high.
Hospitalizations are the way to track a representative # of infections, but that has a 10-14 day lag from the date of exposure. So it takes almost 2 weeks to determine what sort or size of an effect any action has, since it takes 10-14 days for the infection to get bad enough that people get hospitalized. Why Hospitalizations are a more accurate way to count/track the disease is that when people can't breathe, they go to the hospital, but testing remains limited. Don't even get me started on that.
Lastly, a friend wrote me and asked me what a 'buff' is. What I was referring to was a 'Buff (TM)' that is also called a Neck Gaiter. It's a lube-like stretchy fabric that you can wear like a mask over your face, including nose and mouth.
But I did have one last suggestion, and I think a brilliant one! If you are trying to avoid touching your face, and finding that difficult, try this: Buy some 'Gulp Alive' baits and keep the juice. Put your fingers in it! You will learn as quickly as any other way not to touch your nose, mouth, or face. Likely as not, you'll also develop the habit of washing your hands vigorously and often!
Following up on the statement (not mine) made earier that there were no deaths in CO < 60 years old, Indeed. There are two dead (so far) out of the 46 people that have been hospitalized aged 40-50 and three dead of the 89 people hospitalized, aged 50-60... so far. These are not astronomical numbers, but they are not good. The problem with letting young people out building immunity just yet is that the hospitals are not built up on PPE and such to handle the numbers that will end up sick, and those who would otherwise recover with hospital care, won't if they can't get it. It's not like the NINE senior centers where there are presently Covid-19 outbreaks got that way because the residents were out running around. It was their visitors and staff...
Just explaining how things are and why. Not objecting to anybody fishing.
The virus isn't as bad as is lead out to be and isn't as safe as what a lot of people think it is. this is not as bad as the flue outbreak in the 1920s. What is bad about it is that it is new which further develops the fears of people surrounding the virus. there isn't any medications that help with it. the flu has vaccinations but people still get the flu and are pretty sick from it. When all of the dust settles it will end up not being as severe as what is made out to be right now, except for people who have underlying health issues. will it be the worst pandemic of the world in the past 20 years? probably not when considering the swine flue, SARS,MURS, the swine flu, and ebola which had a 67 percent mortality rate in the countries that were afected. If we want to nit pick shouldn't we be taking the same actions for the flu and even common colds because the people that are severely affected by this virus are very likely to have severe problems with a lot of other viruses even though there is a vaccination for the flu. people still get the flu even though they had a flu shot. It doesn't cover every strain of the flu virus.
Reply by: aresgraphix Posted: 3/31/2020 9:43:49 AM Points: 67
Seems to me that instead of hoarding masks and TP, a lot of people should be stocking up on Vagisil and tampons. I couldnít live my life afraid of everything the media tells me to. Live your life. Youíre going to die at some point anyway. Why not enjoy the time you have instead of letting forced socialism turn you into a grumpy, sun starved hermit.
Reply by: NoNick Posted: 3/31/2020 11:25:52 AM Points: 58
"39,000 deaths / 800,000 infections equals a 4.8% death rate. Nearly 1 in every 20 people that get sick have died."
That's a huge stretch of a generalization because not every country is the same. Italy is getting it terribly, yet in South Korea the death rate isn't even remotely close to Italy.
Use your common sense, folks. The more effort you put towards getting past this now means you get through it quicker and back to normal. If foolish people keep pushing the government to crack down, the more liberties they will take not just from those people, but from you as well. And no, that doesn't mean staying holed up in the house when we have Colorado's clean air out there. It means being smart, that's all.
Reply by: Walleye Guy Posted: 4/1/2020 6:41:20 AM Points: 124
Fins Up Reply by: devon234 FxR+ Member Posted: Mar. 30, 11:42:14 PM Points: 168 The virus isn't as bad as is lead out to be and isn't as safe as what a lot of people think it is. this is not as bad as the flue outbreak in the 1920s. What is bad about it is that it is new which further develops the fears of people surrounding the virus. there isn't any medications that help with it. the flu has vaccinations but people still get the flu and are pretty sick from it. When all of the dust settles it will end up not being as severe as what is made out to be right now, except for people who have underlying health issues. will it be the worst pandemic of the world in the past 20 years? probably not when considering the swine flue, SARS,MURS, the swine flu, and ebola which had a 67 percent mortality rate in the countries that were afected. If we want to nit pick shouldn't we be taking the same actions for the flu and even common colds because the people that are severely affected by this virus are very likely to have severe problems with a lot of other viruses even though there is a vaccination for the flu. people still get the flu even though they had a flu shot. It doesn't cover every strain of the flu virus.
I'm guess I'm not understanding the concern. I get the social distancing and staying home and with 4 biological kids, 4 step kids and 9 Grandkids I'm as cautious as the next guy but if people can go stand in a line to get their weed or alcohol or walk within 2 feet of each other while hoard shopping for their T.P. why cannot 2 people go fish and stay, what looks to be, several hundred feet from other fishermen/ women? Hell there was 15 cars in line at the Starbucks I work across from and everyone of them customers rec'd a coffee from a worker that wore no gloves. Maybe I'm one of the "bad guys" but I do not see an issue here.
Big-Low - The issue is this... at the store first of all they have started telling people to stand 6 feet away in line. With that being said, at stores or in public places it won't always be possible to follow social distancing of course.... but outdoors you CAN, and that's the whole point of being outside right? The solitude? Especially while fishing..... That's why companies like Orvis are still encouraging people to fish (obviously) but to be smart about it. In part because so many people who are contracting this are asymptomatic... so I truly have no idea if my buddy has it or in some cases if I have it.
Reply by: Big-Low Posted: 4/2/2020 11:50:34 AM Points: 6
Xavier31, I get that and yes I guess it could be assumed that the 2 gentlemen in the picture or not from the same household but the other side of the coin is we cannot assume they that they are not and because of it we are doomed, Lol. For example, I am fortunate to be working. My company is not only an Essential Company but deemed as a critical Company due to the fact we keep the lights on and the natural gas flowing. I have several foreman that I work with. We have taken precautions here and things are , so far (KNOCK, KNOCK) good. A foreman and one of his crew member met up at a local lake to fish. These gentlemen are around each other all week and deemed it safe as long as they were not close to others they did not know. How do we know that this is not a similar case? Whats everyone's thoughts on shutting down all activities like this because of the not knowing factor? Our unknowing panic may lead to that.
We can all argue and express opinions, but until every state in America shuts down for 2 weeks to flatten the curve, we will all be screwed over. Colorado is doing OK, but if the infection rate continues to rise in Alabama and Georgia, we will suffer the effects when those infected people come here for vacation. Without tourism, (like it or not) we are screwed in Colorado. Like it or not, my 35 employees will be out of work without tourism.
Like going out at night?" It's not happening without hotel and bar and restaurant workers. Don't like going out on the weekend? Who's gonna take care of you when you need services?
It's time to think like we are a country united! Let's Unite to Flatten the Curve!
Reply by: SirGreg88 Posted: 4/3/2020 7:57:37 AM Points: 74
Falcon, I know I like to joke around but I am being serious. Do you mean a shutdown of interstate travel for 2 weeks? Why not 2 months or 6 months? If so, would that include the trucking industry? I know this is a fishing forum but during times like these.........you know........ There is no way to confirm this due to strict media control but I have heard China has welded the doors shut to the biggest apartment complexes you have ever seen--with military in the streets. Just to keep it a "fishing" forum---- should we treat people like sardines ---for a little while?