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Lake: Bingham Lake-Pinery Reservoir
Fish: Common Carp

Snagging Carp (on purpose)

Post By: Leviticus      Posted: 5/12/2019 8:46:14 PM     Points: 3    
Got some dumb teens that dont know the fishing regulations snagging carp by sight "fishing". They have been reported by myself and a few other anglers today. They think it's legal to do so because it's a private reservoir. If you see them out there contact PD, because they already had a nice chat with an officer today thanks to me. And watch out for the kid with a blue schwin mountain bike, he is the culprit of killing some spawning females.

Ps. They think they are invasive, which they are but they are naturalized meaning they were put there for a purpose.
 Reply by: Ajax5240      Posted: May. 12, 9:12:44 PM     Points: 26914    
What makes it illegal?
 Reply by: Leviticus      Posted: May. 12, 9:43:45 PM     Points: 3    
According to the Colorado Division of Fish and Game, the brochure states that "Snagging is only permitted for Kokanee salmon only, in specific waters in this brochure, all other fish must be released immediately".
Page 8 article 5 of the 2019 DOW fishing brochure. You can also look online if you dont have a brochure on hand.
 Reply by: Leviticus      Posted: May. 12, 9:58:23 PM     Points: 3    
If anyone else has questions follow this link: [log in for link]

Colorado state prohibits snagging of any other fish besides Kokanee.
 Reply by: xavierk31      Posted: May. 12, 10:15:51 PM     Points: 2091    
Very different regs compared to South Dakota, where Iím from. There, youíre supposed to kill or throw on the bank or dispose of in some way, ANY carp thatís caught. They donít want ANY of them in the lakes.
So Iím sure snagging carp on purpose wouldnít just be legal, it would be encouraged. Lol
 Reply by: elkinthebag      Posted: May. 12, 10:18:07 PM     Points: 2088    
That reg also states game fish carp are not officially recognized as game fish. Plus private water have there own rules. You can bow fish what ever you want if you own and stock the lake or have permission so snagging could be legal.
 Reply by: Ajax5240      Posted: May. 12, 10:27:43 PM     Points: 26914    
As said.... you can shoot them with a bow year round unless the lake specifically bans it. Unless your private lake rules state otherwise... itís legal.

I appreciate that some see them as a game fish..
 Reply by: Leviticus      Posted: May. 14, 9:45:02 AM     Points: 3    
I guess the general consensus is that because its a private lake and there is no posted signage stating that its against colorado state law (even though it is) that its ok. Well i guess i can throw some tiger musky in there, then go throwing all the bass i catch on the bank and keep way over my limit, and fish with explosives or electricity because this is a lake where the laws are made up and fishing doesnt matter.

Thing that people aren't realizing is that regardless if the body of water is private or not, if its in the state of colorado then state laws apply. For example just because i have land doesn't give me the right to shoot off fireworks on it during a drought and fire ban (like we get almost every year). But its my land so laws dont apply to me because on my land i make them up as i go
 Reply by: Goosehunter82      Posted: May. 14, 9:52:55 AM     Points: 46851    
Levi. I think your wrong in stating that if you have land you can make up your own rules. If you have a body of water on your land not connected to any public body of water and you stock it with fish that your purchase you can do whatever you want with thoes fish.
I also believe that because carp are not game fish and its private water the method of take and bag and possession limits don't apply unless otherwise specified on that particular body of water.
 Reply by: shiverfix      Posted: May. 14, 9:57:26 AM     Points: 3441    
State laws apply to Bingham, because it is managed by Douglas County, even though the ownership still belongs to the Pinery.

Generally, as long as a private pond has no connection to public waterways and was stocked by the land owner and not the state, state fishing regulations do not apply

What you are running into is the difference between ethical and legal. As mentioned before, carp are not considered a game fish by the state of Colorado. Therefore, the snagging rule does not apply to them. That doesn't mean that anyone doing it isn't a douchebag, but it isn't illegal.
 Reply by: shiverfix      Posted: May. 14, 9:57:59 AM     Points: 3441    
Lol goose, great minds
 Reply by: Leviticus      Posted: May. 14, 10:01:27 AM     Points: 3    
I posted a link that everyone can look at for themselves.
 Reply by: shiverfix      Posted: May. 14, 10:13:27 AM     Points: 3441    
Leviticus, actually, I would have to agree with your interpretation. I assumed that because you could gig carp that you could snag, but the way I read this it would be illegal.
 Reply by: NoNick      Posted: May. 14, 10:13:43 AM     Points: 40    
"Well i guess i can throw some tiger musky in there, then go throwing all the bass i catch on the bank and keep way over my limit, and fish with explosives or electricity because this is a lake where the laws are made up and fishing doesnt matter"

No. The lake is managed by Douglas County and stocked privately. There are signs all around the lake with rules on them. Let's not get crazy here. If you do the things you carelessly suggested, YOU will be more responsible for getting the lake CLOSED to people out of the neighborhood than a few dumb kids snagging carp would be. Don't make outlandish "suggestions" without regard for people that might actually take them seriously. Think about what you're posting!
 Reply by: Leviticus      Posted: May. 14, 10:34:27 AM     Points: 3    
Calm down nonick no one here is that gullible to take outlandish suggestions seriously. Thats why its outlandish.

Shiver- thanks, its nice to know im not crazy in seeing it this way. But where is the line drawn for legality of the issue? So state law prohibits it, but state laws apply to the lake, but its private so not all laws apply to it? Thats where im confused.
 Reply by: shiverfix      Posted: May. 14, 10:40:57 AM     Points: 3441    
As far as I know, there is only one state law that doesn't apply to the lake, which I don't like to mention on a public forum, and that is because they have a private license. However, because it is stocked by the state, and because it connects to public waterways, all other state laws are in effect, as far as I understand.

As for nonick, hyperbole aside, I do understand where he is coming from. I have concerns that the residents will shut this lake down someday.
 Reply by: Leviticus      Posted: May. 14, 10:48:25 AM     Points: 3    
Right as i would not want to say in a public forum either, i am aware of that one. And residents have started to shut it down little by little, you used to be able to have watercraft on the lake, there is even a boat ramp. Then it went to kayaks or canoes. Now no watercraft whatsoever is allowed. I fear soon the day will come as well when they want to shut down fishing because people throw the carcasses on the bank where pets can eat them or due to illegal fishing activities.
 Reply by: michaelpthompson      Posted: May. 14, 11:34:36 AM     Points: 2666    
Actually, Colorado fishing regulations DO classify carp as a game fish, but without a bag limit. See page 7 of the current fishing regulation booklet.
[log in for link]
 Reply by: NoNick      Posted: May. 14, 11:38:38 AM     Points: 40    
"And residents have started to shut it down little by little"

It's been years since the boating stuff happened, frankly. The sign by the ramp spells it out about why they closed it to boats. It's just too cost prohibitive with the zebra mussel stuff. It's a county park with cooperative management with the residents/community. That's the key. You might think ALL of your suggestions were outlandish, but some fool who reads them ALL might not think they ALL are. That's all I'll say for that one. Palmer Lake had Pike in it, right? How did they get there?

YES, those stupid kids throwing the carp on the bank is an issue, especially because of the smell for people that use the trail and also because the littering aspect of it. Hopefully, that's what the Douglas County Sheriff or Parker Police will tell them while writing out a littering ticket.
 Reply by: shiverfix      Posted: May. 14, 12:45:12 PM     Points: 3441    
"Palmer Lake had Pike in it, right? How did they get there?"

As does Monument now.
 Reply by: Leviticus      Posted: May. 14, 2:13:20 PM     Points: 3    
NoNick- youre right. No reason for me to be giving people ideas. Also I am unaware of the palmer lake pike population. But i can speak for the pinery and say that carp would have to have had been introduced unnaturally as there are no bodies of water big enough to support carp near there. There is a pump house on the reservoir that feeds the body of water. The carp introduced there have been put there for a reason paid for by the community. Its not right to remove them because someone thinks they are invasive or trash fish. They do serve a purpose and illegal fishing activities have had the population in a decline. Its still illegal to snag carp regardless if the reservoir is private or not.
 Reply by: NoNick      Posted: May. 14, 3:31:18 PM     Points: 40    
You're right. The carp are there for a reason. I would imagine they were stocked at some point to control weeds or some other nuisance plant. It's wrong to snag them, and I've seen signs there stating that littering gets you a ticket. Throwing a big carp on the bank to rot is littering.

I wasn't saying you were wrong about what those kids were doing. What I was saying, and I think all of us would agree, is that Bingham is a great place that gets abused in more than one way because of it's management style. It's just better not to let the cat out of the bag about certain things, so to speak, than to pique the curiosity of those whose intentions might not be so good.

You did the right thing by calling the police.

As for Palmer Lake, there are no more pike AFAIK. They probably wound up in Monument the same way they did in Palmer, but Monument hasn't been drained, and Palmer was a few years ago. I'm pretty sure no little stream connects the two.
 Reply by: shiverfix      Posted: May. 14, 3:37:01 PM     Points: 3441    
Palmer went dry during the last drought. It isn't connected to Monument Creek, it is fed by a spring. Hence why it dried up. And unfortunately it went completely dry for a couple years, so nothing survived. It was a fun little pike lake. And yes, somehow some Palmer pike ended up in Monument as Palmer dried up. Wonder how...
 Reply by: JOHN_COSprings      Posted: May. 18, 9:55:56 AM     Points: 630    
<snacking on my popcorn>

Been down this road over the years here, over and over. Carp are a game fish. Yes, it's in the regulations, hasn't changed in over decade.

So, this means:

It is illegal to simply dump a dead carp on the bank side, leave their rotting corpses floating in the water, toss them whole in a trash can or worse, the field as "forage" for other animals. Exceptions to this regulation can be obtained in advance, such as done so prior to bow-fishing tournaments, to donate the dead fish to a wildlife sanctuary etc.

The regulations also state that all edible portions of game fish should be consumed before disposal unless it is to be used as bait or for fish or fur-bearers. Sadly this implies you should not be using the carp as a "fertilizer" excuse unless you eat those edible portions first. Of course you could argue, what part of a carp is actually edible ?


There is a rapidly growing number of anglers now targeting carp from the bank, boat, kayak or paddle board. Just the past couple of years I have seen a huge surge in the positive passion for the species from those I meet and speak with.

Where it used to be uncommon to see another angler targeting carp, now it is not unusual, and often even expected, to encounter others fishing for them at the more popular venues. Yes, there are those that are subsistence fishing for their family, however, there are many that are now enjoying simply catching and releasing the fish.

We now have tournaments each year, including the new bi-weekly TLO "Evening Fishing League", where carp are included and catch & release is the format. A decade ago many would have laughed at that the mere mention or notion of this in Colorado.

I actually get asked a lot now by subsistence fishermen how to catch carp. Many have said it's becoming harder for them to find eating sized catfish in our waters. Perhaps an example where sustainable fishing, catch & release rules for trophy sized fish, more slot & creel limits, should be enforced ?

The problem here as always comes down to enforcement and a desire to pursue enforcement for a species that honestly, though growing very quickly in popularity, is still pretty much unloved by our state officials and governing authorities.

I do believe that CPW can plainly see the growing popularity of carp fishing here in Colorado and simply do not know how to react to this change in attitude or behavior from local fishermen. Our existing fishing regulations are not in favor of those passionately targeting the fish and simply do not exist at all for the protection of what trophy carp waters we have in our State.

There is an acceptance that carp will never be eliminated from our waters. The question is now, how best to utilize this undesired species.
 Reply by: Hawaiian Punch      Posted: May. 18, 2:41:24 PM     Points: 4818    
You want a look at how to embrace Carp fishing? Just look at Europe . . . .they take Carp fishing to a whole new level.We are just starting to see Carp in a new light. Just look at "Mud Bums" and where they are taking catfishing.
Don't be surprised to see a Carp based TV series coming to a channel near you!
 Reply by: skiman      Posted: May. 18, 3:59:51 PM     Points: 2031    
^^^...with JOHN hosting the show!!!
 Reply by: El Jefe      Posted: May. 18, 6:11:51 PM     Points: 265    
I don't know about the status of the lake referenced by Leviticus (as to whether or not it is public or private).

However, my understanding is that a private lake in Colorado, is NOT subject to the rules and regulations of the Colorado Division of Wildlife as regards possession, bag limits, etc.

Hence, a "private lake license".

[log in for link]
 Reply by: JOHN_COSprings      Posted: May. 18, 8:22:11 PM     Points: 630    
In Europe there are already a number of carp fishing TV shows, alas not available here unless you can catch an episode online. "Monster Carp", "The Big Fish Off", etc. There are some huge web based YouTube carp shows out there. Yes, folks are carp mad, once you set foot from the USA. The Canadians are pretty Carp obsessed as well. Mexico has some passionate carp anglers. Asia Pacific, love their carp, they also love to eat them, flip side, koi carp. Some koi can sell for six figure sums of $$$. Dang ! In trying to think of another country that is anti carp, all I can come up with, is Australia. Even the Aussies have their fair share of passionate carp anglers.
 Reply by: El Jefe      Posted: May. 19, 8:21:30 AM     Points: 265    
JOHN-COSprings is absolutely correct about the illegality of wasting game fish.

However, you will not find that information in the 2019 Colorado Fishing Brochure.

It is located here:
[log in for link]

Article XI, #020-D.1. found on page 41
 Reply by: JOHN_COSprings      Posted: May. 20, 10:45:19 PM     Points: 630    
We do have regulations, however, it would be impractical to include everything in a fishing brochure. The onus is upon the angler to trawl the web, official government sites, to find the information.

Given it is often in a locked box, in the bathroom, behind a sign saying, "Beware the Lepper!", it is no surprise many simply are misinformed or ill informed.

Perhaps CPW could spare a page in next years brochure to clearly spell out what anglers can and cannot do with the fish they catch. You would honestly think it would already be in there. They certainly take the time to spell out how you can and cannot fish, methods, baits, locations.

JF
 Reply by: El Jefe      Posted: May. 21, 7:50:15 AM     Points: 265    
At the very least, CPW should place a disclaimer in the paper/published regs stating that "These rules and regulations are NOT all-inclusive. For a complete listing of all rules and regulations go to the web site: XXXXXXXX"

At the entrance to Rocky Mountain National Park (Grand Lake side) there is a sign posted that reads, "It is your responsibility to know and obey all rules and regulations of the Park".

Fair enough.

But when you go to the visitors center, and inquire as to the rules and regulations of the Park, you are simply given a one-page handout.
When you press for a COMPLETE listing of the Parks' Rules and Regulations, they don't have it AND they can't tell you where to find them online. (I get that a written, hardbound or loose-leaf copy would be expensive to hand out, but a member of the public should be able to buy one).

When I asked "Who DOES have a copy of the Rules and Regulations?" I was told (seriously), "The Ranger who writes the tickets".
 Reply by: Coyute      Posted: May. 21, 11:38:42 AM     Points: 109    
Great garden fertilizer. snag on.
 Reply by: FISHRANGLER      Posted: May. 22, 7:41:05 AM     Points: 1682    
They are not naturalized or what ever you called it lol? And they were not put there for a purpose

Omg
As a matter of a fact they just conducted a Harvest of about 10 thousand pounds of carp out of there a couple of years ago. They got some private company to net them in the back cove and were hauled off to some ranch.
Leave the kids alone you may get yourself kicked out permanently and the officer that may or may not have talked to them was in the wrong there no Parker police or the Douglas county sheriffs jurisdiction over those fish lol
Itís a private lake CPW rules and regulations do not apply.
Know the facts jack.
And please consider not putting the lake on blast on the forms in the future. You have done more damage in starting this thread then any kid snagging a carp could ever do. These threads for years about this lake were always deleted in the past Dave coulson and John protected from being blasted wish it would have been deleted at the beginning instead itís here for everyone to read.
Thanks
 Reply by: Jacob J      Posted: May. 22, 10:36:22 AM     Points: 1801    
People, who considering themselves as an anglers, should consider some ethical norms. In my humble opinion it goes beyond the legality issue. It is the matter of respecting life. In all forms...

Forgive me if you do not like my opinion.
 Reply by: Wilbur Rednbacker      Posted: May. 22, 11:13:29 AM     Points: 2079    
When I was a kid we took any carp home we caught for the garden... We didn't leave them on the bank.
 Reply by: NoNick      Posted: May. 22, 11:14:11 AM     Points: 40    
Throwing a fish on a bank to die is littering whether you like the fish species or hate it. It causes problems for everybody that recreates there. It's worthy of a ticket from law enforcement for the simple reason that it reinforces the fact that there are people that appreciate and care about the welfare of this lake. It also shows that rules and laws aren't just suggestions for you to decide whether or not you need to heed them.

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